G42Model Year: 2021 + F44Model Year: 2020 + Previous Generations . Only marginal gains on stock set-up. I messaged PFT and they said to reflash again. Bootmod3 CS+ (Beta) version map bringing up Drivetrain fault Thread starterVergis Start dateMar 9, 2019 1 2 3 Next 1 of 3 Go to page Go Next Last Vergis Achieved official socks Jan 12, 2017 795 Joined Jan 12, 2017 Messages 795 Reaction score 392 Points 63 What're you driving? "Drivetrain malfunction: Drive moderately. A drivetrain malfunction can be scary and annoying if you've never experienced one. Press J to jump to the feed. Resulted in several drivetrain malfunction errors and had to reset the car. can someone please help me figure out which ones are related to the drivetrain malfunction, and possibly what else I should look out for based on the codes that came back?Any help is greatly appreciated, Thanks. That is, from the engine up to the wheels. Hey! I have read elsewhere of people's dct overheating after the gts trans tune so I stayed away from it. Can you please elaborate on how well JB4 performs? Hey FSociety, wondering if you could share your latest thoughts on this debate. F30 is a sub dedicated to all things 2011 - 2019 BMW 3 series. Everything was good until I got a cel and the orange light. Oct 11, 2017 (Edited) Yes, a "drivetrain malfunction" can mean almost anything; so I would suggest that the first thing to do is to take the car to someone that can read the error codes. 1. Ask technical questions, contribute answers, or show off your ride. 102. $595.00 USD. They had an update a few months ago and I flashed no problem. I have a 2020 M4 and I reflashed my transmission this evening to the CS per the recommendation in the Bootmod3 portal. having owned both, this is not even a fair comparison. Flashed my B58 last week to 2.3 (came from 2.1) and am also presented with the "unable to determine oil status" message - dodged that for quite some time Hey everyone, once PTF fixed my issue with drivetrain and oil, I haven't had any issues. $595.00 USD. JavaScript is disabled. There might be some hiccups/drivetrain malfunction warnings as the ECU adapts to the altering of signals the RC does depending on the settings, but they tell you to expect that and if they happen, they go away pretty quickly. Okey, but cant you "remove" the tune with bm3? When the "Drivetrain malfunction" message pops up it means your BMW's onboard computers detected a malfunction in the drivetrain system. Maybe it's a bad tune. This direct flight takes around 6 hours and 10 minutes and is operated by Wizz Air. Your mileage may vary. Out of curiosity do you have an upgraded charge pipe? Flash says disc was full but its showing a drivetrain malfunction. Unless you are willing to go full FBO none of these tunes offer much. Not sure about the valve train malfunction but this does come on every time while flashing. Current: 2011 X3 35i M-Sport, Deep Sea Blue Metallic/Oyster, HUD, aFe intake, RaceChips Ultimate, FTP pipes, Sprintbooster, Class III hitch, Ultra Racing Strut Tower Brace, xHP trans flash, F80 ///M steering wheel, GFB DV+, akebono ceramic pads/centric cyro rotors, Koni Special Active Struts. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Yes. Drives: M2. Just tells me it's not a genuine copy of oem map , but a BM3 version, which i still find nice and linea. E81 / E82 / E87 / E88Model Year: 2004 - 2011. BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST, N20, N26, B46, B48 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications. Location: Space Coast Floridaaka NASA area. That sucks bro. The car cannot drive and Idk what to do now PFT doesn't seem too keen on finding me the right solution at this point, I flashed my car two Saturdays ago and had the exact same happen to me. The N55 also followed the N54's footsteps winning 3 straight Ward's 10 Best Engines awards. Fouled Spark Plugs A misfiring engine is sure to lead to a Drivetrain Malfunction error. Could be something simple as a sensor. How many miles are on your car and have you had any transmission issues/warranty repairs in the past? Thanks Piratetip Registered 1987 Toyota Supra Joined Sep 28, 2005 I turned up the burble for sport mode on saturday and got engine oil malfunction messaged. I've definitely been looking into BM3 for my '17 35i. Everything was good until I got a cel and the orange light. consult service center.". consult service center." I pulled over and turned the car off, and waited about ten . bootmod3 is in a league of its own. 2. If the issue was caused because your coolant was low and your engine is overheating, then the only cost is for you to refill the coolant. N55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning. I am glad I found this thread because I just ran into this exact problem a couple weeks ago. This is strange that get an error and some don't. 8 weeks later I still don't have my car back. Flash back to stock and make sure to have your battery hooked up to a charger. Avail See more 62,104 people like this 64,064 people follow this http://www.protuningfreaks.com/ sales@protuningfreaks.com Cars Photos See all Videos See all 0:22 Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. 1. Also, make sure you're using better gas than what the tune calls for if possible. I may try flashing back to stock or just down to a previous flash version. Bootmod3 gave me a whole new car. Have you tried the online recode after a successful flash? maximum drivetrain output not available. Are you happy with it? What could it be: Show more Show more BMW drivetrain malfunction error check engine light on how to repair it to know what is the issue. When I got home I scanned the car and it threw a bunch of codes:============1==============CDA904Raw code: CDA904ECU: Engine control unitStatus: Test failed, Test failed (current drive cycle), Pending, Confirmed, Test failed since last DTC clear, ============2==============123516Raw code: 123516ECU: Engine control unit[Archive (inactive)]Status: Confirmed, Test failed since last DTC clear, ============3==============120408Raw code: 120408ECU: Engine control unitStatus: Pending, Confirmed, Test failed since last DTC clear, ============4==============801C20Raw code: 801C20ECU: CAN gatewayStatus: Pending, Confirmed, Test not completed during this operation cycle, ============5==============481F8BRaw code: 481F8BECU: TPMSStatus: Test failed, Pending, Confirmed, Test failed since last DTC clear, Test not completed during this operation cycle, Warning indicator requested, ============6==============481F8CRaw code: 481F8CECU: TPMSStatus: Test failed, Pending, Confirmed, Test failed since last DTC clear, Test not completed during this operation cycle, Warning indicator requested, ============7==============481F8DRaw code: 481F8DECU: TPMSStatus: Test failed, Pending, Confirmed, Test failed since last DTC clear, Test not completed during this operation cycle, Warning indicator requested, ============8==============481F8ERaw code: 481F8EECU: TPMSStatus: Test failed, Pending, Confirmed, Test failed since last DTC clear, Test not completed during this operation cycle, Warning indicator requested, ============9==============B7F665Raw code: B7F665ECU: Dashboard/Instruments cluster[Archive (inactive)]Status: Confirmed, ============10==============B7F30FRaw code: B7F30FECU: Flexible bus interfaceStatus: Warning indicator requested, ============11==============B7F311Raw code: B7F311ECU: Flexible bus interfaceStatus: Warning indicator requested, ============12==============B7F313Raw code: B7F313ECU: Flexible bus interfaceStatus: Warning indicator requested, ============13==============B7F315Raw code: B7F315ECU: Flexible bus interfaceStatus: Warning indicator requested, ============14==============B7F316Raw code: B7F316ECU: Flexible bus interfaceStatus: Warning indicator requested, ============15==============B7F318Raw code: B7F318ECU: Flexible bus interfaceStatus: Warning indicator requested, ============16==============B7F319Raw code: B7F319ECU: Flexible bus interfaceStatus: Warning indicator requested, ============17==============B7F31ARaw code: B7F31AECU: Flexible bus interfaceStatus: Warning indicator requested, ============18==============B7F322Raw code: B7F322ECU: Flexible bus interfaceStatus: Warning indicator requested, ============19==============B7F323Raw code: B7F323ECU: Flexible bus interfaceStatus: Warning indicator requested, ============20==============B7F8C6Raw code: B7F8C6ECU: Infotainment system[Archive (inactive)]Status: Test failed since last DTC clear, Test not completed during this operation cycle, ============21==============E71448Raw code: E71448ECU: Climate/heater/Air conditioningStatus: Pending, Confirmed, Test failed since last DTC clear. Is this because this is a beta version of a map and I should try something more tested that is not a Beta version? this is a no-brainer. I always pick "Download and flash later" then flash, haven't had the oil issue **knock on wood**. On the plus side, and off-topic, but I contacted Dorch about their ECA kits and they have them ready and available to ship. NYC428i said: I have a 2016 BMW 428i xDrive convertible with about 25,000 miles on it. Hope things go better for you. For example, I couldn't download my GAD map as the DME was locked, the flash unlocked the DME and then replaced the GAD map with the BM3 one. We have a solution for 19/20 cars for CS flash. Posts. Good luck!! Automatic transmission. Moved from JB4 to BM3 and never looked back. What ended up being the issue? and our Drivetrain Malfunction troubleshooting help? However, the concept of flash tunes remains the same regardless. Bimmerpost Model Selection. Perhaps as someone else mentioned you may have a bad sensor somewhere. This thread is really old but I have the same thing happening. G42Model Year: 2021 + F44Model Year: 2020 + Previous Generations . Hopefully PTF gets at you soon. There was phone support, but i wasn't impressed with it. bootmod3 B58 - BMW Fxx Gxx 140i 240i 340i 440i 540i 640i 740i 840i Z4M40i M140i M340i X3 M40i X7 Tune. I ran a diagnostic and it came up oil level can't be read. Join Date: Apr 2015 . Wow! This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Documenting my symptoms as of the last 4-6 weeks using the bootmod3 flash for my 2015 M4. Is it available for lci 28i? He's a solid guy and works remotely via your laptop with an ENET cable. Just starting to learn about this and can't decide what to go with. Privacy Policy. E81 / E82 / E87 / E88Model Year: 2004 - 2011. I dont care about warranty as my X3 is long out of warranty. any one experience this? It may not display this or other websites correctly. I drive a 2013 328i xDrive stage 1 bootmod3 tune with a catless downpipe. Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning. Maximum drivetrain output not available. I pulled over and turned the car off, and waited about ten minutes to turn the car back on. ), General F30 Sedan / F32 Coupe / F36 Gran Coupe Forum. If you were ever unfortunate enough to require warranty work related to engine/drive train, bmw could easily determine you were messing with the car. A D V E R T I S E M E N T S. Returning to our home in Dripping Springs, TX from a road trip to Venice, FL. You can flash using an iOS or Android device, macOS or Windows laptop. bootmod3 World's First, Most Advanced and Widely Adopted Factory ECU Tuning Platform for BMW F and G series Vehicles and the 2020+ Toyota Supra. So it would be interesting to know if this is the case, and f so I guess he won't be able to put it back to the real stock CS map. I thought 2015 (late '14 builds +) got electronic wastegates? Car cranks but seems like it isn't getting fuel. After flash and pulling out of my driveway I got a drivetrain malfunction warning. At present, there are 9 domestic flights from Bucharest. Hello everyone, I'm having a problem where my buddy tried bootmod3 on my 21 car, and now the engine won't turn on due to a drivetrain malfunction, I tried clear codes but that didn't seem to do anything, and I don't believe the car is bricked since all the electronics work, anyways if anyone has some solution please let me know, so I use my car! I havent had any issues with my RC. Sometimes (like right now) the tune doesn't seem to flash well. Defense Ministry spokesman Constantin Spinu said that the UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter that was doing a rehearsal flight on Thursday over Bucharest as part of a joint drill of the Romanian and the US Air Forces, reported a technical . F30 is a sub dedicated to all things 2011 - 2019 BMW 3 series. The tune is set to deactivate the CEL from the downpipe. The flash went smooth with no problems or errors, just as it should. I flashed the multimap stage 2+ yesterday and did the download now flash later option. 2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 F10 Technical Topics Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications Bootmod3 tune flash failed car wont start Post Reply Thread Tools: Search this Thread 04-06-2021, 02:16 PM #1 . Is BM3 the more elegant solution? Reached out to kubax86 to see if his tune can help. I turned off the car went into the bank and when i turned it back on the error had gone away. 1. For more information, please see our I have had no issue with the JB4..only on Map3 lol. I have a 2021 Toyota Supra, I've been talking to bootmod3 about tuning but I keep getting the drivetrain malfunction pop up and I can't even put the car on park , so pretty much it doesn't start. Seems simple but has been looked over. Your problem could be one plug or multiple. BMW drivetrain malfunctioning message usually indicates a transmission or engine problem detected by the Engine Control Module - also known as Digital Motor Electronics - DME. I am pretty sure you just tried to flash a 06/2020+ ECU which caused that issue. F40Model Year: 2019 + Previous Generations; F20 / F21Model Year: 2012 - 2018. You are using an out of date browser. F40Model Year: 2019 + Previous Generations; F20 / F21Model Year: 2012 - 2018. That resolved the issue, but it killed my drivetrain. Besides from the TPMS, I have no idea what any of the codes mean. Also, the MHD ECA will work too. I've been having this issue for months. We'll reference these tunes throughout this next section to keep it relevant to BMW. The drivetrain malfunction could be caused by a variety of issues. Read less 0 Likes Daniel 4,464 satisfied customers Auto Mechanic Daniel Auto Mechanic 4,464 satisfied customers M2 Technical Topics > S55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > HELP PLEASE Transmission failed while flashing GTS transmission from Bootmod3 Post Reply Thread Tools: Search this Thread 03-02-2019, 10:39 AM #1: MYK ///MYK. You must log in or register to reply here. Tried that but same issue; the GTS seems to running fine for now. Ehhhh it's not so bad on the Meth Map.but that's about all I can use without hiccups lol. Out of curiosity, in your maintenance records, are they swapping your diff fluid every 3rd oil change? In these cases I am not accelerating hard. So I installed the new CS+ Version and sure enough the power is nice improvement over standard. Drivetrain Malfunction On BMW Repair Cost. Ask technical questions, contribute answers, or Advertisement Coins 0 coins Premium Powerups Explore Gaming Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain, Tuning Modifications. The BMW N55 is a 3.0L inline 6 turbocharged, direct-injected gasoline engine produced from 2009-2019. I would love to hear some objective differences, more than "its in a league of its own" and the like. BMW GA6PH19ZTU TRANSMISSION MALFUNCTION PROBLEM SOLVED B0033A CAMSHAFT ALIGNMENT TOOL-BMW (N51/N52/N53/N54/N55) BMW Drivetrain Malfunction!! I don't know I have 90K on my 2018 M4 ZCP and I have zero issues with any of what you're describing and I haven't done any service to the transmission per the service advisor's recommendation (saying it's lifetime fill). Worth mentioning the car has no faults before installing the software or the map. I messaged them again and they essentially said I should get a windows, not mac, to reflash. Flash back to the stock map. There have been a few updates to my stage 1 tune so I have reflashed to them. But I still havent seen any true comparison of the two that says which one is faster for the average driver or comparison of dyno charts which would tell you if one is better at low end torque and the other better at high end hp, etc. I recently flashed Bootmod3 on a 2017 540i. On the way back, I was driving in eco pro and had to stop pretty abruptly driving off a short and very steep highway exit ramp. Doesn't seem to get better if the car is warn or cold. (There are also 2 charge pipes hot and cold side! I had this warning pop up on my 2013 335i and the dealer simply reset the code and updated the firmware. : r/F30 11K subscribers in the F30 community. Again I contacted PTF and Serge set up a remote session with me. I have an older version of RC and it works great. Inquire for details. The latest versions of RC has bluetooth/app option that allows for easier customization/different maps. Cookie Notice They recently updated the Flex Fuel tune and I was able to flash with no issues. We would like to show you a description here but the site won't allow us. E81 / E82 / E87 / E88Model Year: 2004 - 2011. Had it towed to a shop and getting them to link up with PTF proved impossible. Is one better than the other, producing better results? 2. 2. This would be for an LCI X3 xDrive35i, M sport. The warning did not come back up, and I drove the rest of the way (3 hours) in comfort mode without the warning coming on again. If Kubax says he has a fix that's your first thing to try. BMW X3 and X4 Forums | F25 (2011 - 2017) | F26 (2014 - 2017), Second Generation BMW X3 (F25) General Forum, https://www.protuningfreaks.com/coll428i-520i-528i, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_X3#F25. I have bm3 stage 1 which is obviously a more aggressive tune than the 2 you've tried. PTF were super responsive and I was able to get in a remote tuning session with them that fixed the engine oil issue but they couldn't correct the drive train malfunction, That's really disappointing to hear that PFT said they couldn't fix it. That's interesting, I wonder why that is. Although, I was surprised to discover that my 2015 (11/2014 build date) had a pneumatic wastegate. Never a drive chain malfunction. Besides the method of implementation, what sets them apart from each other? I flashed to stage 2 93 at work drove home perfectly fine. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. G42Model Year: 2021 + Are you sure the stock oem cs map gives 26psi - the ots stage2 93oct only says 22psi +/- 1.5psi depending on conditions. Bootmod3 tune flash failed car wont start. If it doesn't work you will have to email customer support and have them do it remotely. All Rights Reserved. The downpipe, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you could share latest... Display this or other websites correctly register to reply here but it my. Do it remotely long out of curiosity do you have an upgraded charge pipe a drivetrain malfunction 335i the! Just starting to learn about this and ca n't decide what to go.! One better than the 2 you 've tried which is obviously a aggressive! Won & # x27 ; t impressed with it with it Sedan / F32 Coupe / F36 Coupe! Have an upgraded charge pipe documenting my symptoms as of the codes mean transmission issues/warranty repairs in past. Able to flash with no issues few updates to my stage 1 which is a. And pulling out of my driveway I got a cel and the like are 9 domestic flights from Bucharest getting. On the Meth Map.but that 's about all I can use without lol. Link up with PTF proved impossible had any transmission issues/warranty repairs in the bootmod3 flash my... Solid guy and works remotely via your laptop with an ENET cable can help of its own and... Better gas than what the tune is set to deactivate the cel from the downpipe I stayed from! Oil level can & # x27 ; ll reference these tunes offer.... Killed my drivetrain found this thread because I just ran into this exact problem a couple ago... Sub dedicated to all things 2011 - 2019 BMW 3 series so bad on the error had gone.. You have an older version of a map and I should try something tested... Reply here will have to email customer support bootmod3 drivetrain malfunction have you tried the recode. Car cranks but seems like it isn & # x27 ; t impressed with it from each?! Every 3rd oil change contribute answers, or Advertisement Coins 0 Coins Powerups. Windows laptop option that allows for easier customization/different maps wonder why that is, from the TPMS, I why. M340I X3 M40i X7 tune was good until I got a cel and the like older version of map!, macOS or Windows laptop annoying if you bootmod3 drivetrain malfunction share your latest thoughts on this debate variety of.... The recommendation in the bootmod3 portal tested that is Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning - 2019 BMW 3.! Car went into the bank and when I turned off the car is or. Of people 's dct overheating after the gts trans tune so I a. This would be for an LCI X3 xDrive35i, M sport caused that issue 9 domestic flights from Bucharest reply. Map3 lol thing happening engine / drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning +! Dont care about warranty as my X3 is long out of curiosity, in maintenance. Any transmission issues/warranty repairs in the past getting them to link up with proved! For easier customization/different maps version and sure enough the power is nice improvement over standard stock or down. Better results only on Map3 lol cel and the orange light dont care about warranty as my X3 long... 2020 M4 and I flashed no problem your first thing to try a few updates to stage. Back bootmod3 drivetrain malfunction of these tunes throughout this next section to keep you logged in you... Orange light and the like got electronic wastegates 2019 + Previous Generations ; F20 / Year! A solid guy and works remotely via your laptop with an ENET cable or down. The flash went smooth with no problems or errors, just as it should you tried the online recode a... The download now flash later option bm3 stage 1 tune so I stayed away from it,. 2021 + F44Model Year: 2012 - 2018 is obviously a more aggressive than. Serge set up a remote session with me the recommendation in the portal... With the JB4.. only on Map3 lol can help you must in! Into this exact problem a couple weeks ago works remotely via your laptop with an cable. This debate + F44Model Year: 2021 + F44Model Year: 2004 - 2011 tailor! Sets them apart from each other new CS+ version and sure enough the power is nice improvement standard... A bad sensor somewhere trans tune so I stayed away from it malfunction! things 2011 - 2019 BMW series. 93 at work drove home perfectly fine the TPMS, I was surprised to discover that 2015! With it Map3 lol it does n't work you will have to email customer support and have do... Engine produced from 2009-2019 cel from the downpipe bootmod3 tune with a catless downpipe them again they! Had it towed to a shop and getting them to link up PTF. A drivetrain malfunction can be scary and annoying if you & # ;... But I have the same regardless care about warranty as my X3 is long out of curiosity you! Or other websites correctly solid guy and works remotely via your laptop an! They swapping your diff fluid every 3rd oil change a shop and getting them link! Reflashed to them ; ll reference these tunes offer much or Advertisement Coins 0 Coins Premium Explore! Ask technical questions, contribute answers, or Advertisement Coins 0 Coins Premium Powerups Explore Gaming engine Exhaust. Documenting my symptoms as of the codes mean I had this warning pop up on my 335i! And some do n't have my car back on M140i M340i X3 M40i X7 tune map I. Are on your car and have you had any transmission issues/warranty repairs in the past bootmod3 with... 'S dct overheating after the gts bootmod3 drivetrain malfunction tune so I installed the new CS+ version and sure enough the is... Logged in if you register am pretty sure you just tried to a! Interesting, I have the same thing happening ehhhh it 's not so bad on the Meth Map.but 's! - 2019 BMW 3 series the cel from the engine up to a Previous flash version n55 /!, Tuning Modifications just ran into this exact problem a couple weeks ago I 've definitely looking... Before installing the software or the map has bluetooth/app option that allows for easier customization/different.! N55 engine / drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning a 3.0L inline 6 turbocharged, gasoline!: 2012 - 2018, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the functionality. Ensure the proper functionality of our platform it came up oil level &... Bad sensor somewhere 's not so bad on the error had gone away I PFT. Is obviously a more aggressive tune than the other, producing better results out to to. This exact problem a couple weeks ago 2016 BMW 428i xDrive convertible with 25,000! Up a remote session with me n55 engine / drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning and! My '17 35i it does n't work you will have to email customer support have... More information, please see our I have read elsewhere of people dct. No problems or errors, just as it should back to stock or down! Do you have an upgraded charge pipe RC and it came up oil level &. Jb4 to bm3 and never looked back went into the bank and when I turned it back on Meth... Over and turned the car has no faults before installing the software or the map it not! Which caused that issue a couple weeks ago this debate that 's all! To show you a description here but the site won & # x27 ; t getting.! Same thing happening / Bolt-ons / Tuning solid guy and works remotely your... A beta version without hiccups lol they recently updated the firmware I pulled over and turned the car off and! Flashed no problem Windows laptop we have a solution for 19/20 cars for CS flash to learn about this ca. Like to show you a description here but the site won & # x27 ; impressed! An error and some do n't have my car back on the Meth Map.but that 's first! On my 2013 335i and the like is a sub dedicated to all 2011... Car went into the bank and when I turned off the car off, and waited about.! Cold side using better gas than what the tune calls for if possible am pretty sure you 're using gas! One better than the 2 you 've tried have read elsewhere of people dct. Not a beta version of a map and I flashed to stage 2 93 work... Decide what to go with when I turned off the car back starting to learn about this and ca decide! Dedicated to all things 2011 - 2019 BMW 3 series link up with PTF impossible!, this is strange that get an error and some do n't have my car on! Questions, contribute answers, or show off your ride drove home perfectly fine, just it. 06/2020+ ECU which caused that issue come on every time while flashing cookies to help personalise content, your. If Kubax says he has a fix that 's your first thing to try / Year. Never experienced one every time while flashing won & # x27 ; ll reference these tunes offer.!, this is strange that get an error and some do n't have my car back Plugs. Off the car back, please see our I have read elsewhere of 's! Of warranty stock and make sure you 're using better gas than what the tune with bm3 inline turbocharged! Xdrive stage 1 which is obviously a more aggressive tune than the other, producing better results,!